Nampa ID Recreation Center Denies Same-Sex Families

Feb 2nd, 2009 | By | Category: News

What is a ‘Family’ and who gets to decide?werwe

In late January a story broke in Idaho’s Treasure Valley about Amber Howard and Rachel Dovel, a lesbian couple raising Howard’s biological 4-year-old son, being denied a family membership at the Nampa Recreation Center; a facility owned and operated by the City of Nampa.

Amber Howard Rachel Dovel and son Logan denied a family membership at the Nampa Recreation Center in IdahoThe family was ultimately refused on the grounds that the women are not legally married. The couple claims they were told over the phone that they could acquire a family membership as long as they provided evidence of a domestic relationship.

Howard provided evidence that her partner’s employer recognized their relationship by including Howard on Dovel’s company’s health insurance plan. The city refused to consider the shared insurance coverage as proof of a relationship.

However, the center did offer Howard and the child a family membership, but Dovel would have to apply separately for an individual membership. This would cost the family $353 more than what other families, with an unlimited number of children, currently pay.

Ultimately the family opted to pay more and commute farther from their home for fewer services and resources to join the YMCA in Caldwell where they were welcomed without question or bias.

The law is the law, or is it?

On January 23, The Boise Weekly reported that Nampa Mayor Tom Dale was defending the Recreation Center policy based on, two basic criteria; Idaho law and money.

Nampa Mayor Tom Dale defends Amber Howard Rachel Dovel and son Logan being denied a family membership at the Nampa Recreation Center in Idaho“The center gives our passes only to families as defined under Idaho law.” Mayor Dale told The Boise Weekly. “We have to protect the integrity of our funding structure. Any two people who happen to be roommates and say, ‘Hey we’re family, give us a discount’, we would suffer financially.”

“I pay almost $400 more a month to have Amber on my insurance, which is not something I would do for a roommate.” Dovel told PrideDEPOT.com.

When PrideDEPOT.com pressed Mayor Dale on what law or laws he was referring to in his Boise Weekly interview, he was unable to reference one federal or state statue that would define a “family.”

“The qualifying factor of that is you have to be married and that provides the definition that allows us to function and to keep our rates low,” said Dale. The Mayor says that dependent children who are claimed on tax forms, and the Idaho definition of marriage, is the criteria his city uses to define a family suitable for membership.

“We see it as a business and management issue,” said Darrin Johnson, Nampa Parks and Recreation director.

Both Johnson and the mayor indicated that it is the law that ties their hands in recognizing the two women and their child as a family.

“If the law in Idaho was changed to recognize that as marriage in the sate of Idaho we would not have a problem with it,” Mayor Dale said.

Johnson agreed saying, “The mayor is right, if it was a legalized approach it wouldn’t be an issue, we could manage that very easily.”

Johnson indicated that he recognizes the fact that heterosexual couples have the choice to marry while same-sex couples are not afforded that option.

“There’s no guarantee, how do we know if they would get married or not. So it would really change the price structure I think if we did something different, of course that’s our worry,” Johnson said.

The issue for Mayor Dale appears to be a matter of having a sense of consistency with their exclusionary policy.

He said that, “We have to be cognizant of potential unintended consequences of going against a policy or a definition in this case of marriage as is provided by the state of Idaho. We could find ourselves in a position of having ourselves painted into a corner of providing benefits to a lot of people.”

Neither Dale nor Johnson could quantify the number of non-married heterosexual or same-sex couples that have applied and been denied family memberships Mayor Dale simply said that it has “happened many times.” And he continued, “I doubt if they keep a record of that because it is not a statistic that has ever been important.” Johnson could only verify that there were far more heterosexual couples than same-sex couples who have been denied family memberships.

Would the Nampa Recreation Center “suffer financially” by including same-sex couples?

Nampa Recreation Center in Idaho Discriminates against same-sex families“If every two people that just came in and said we want a family pass because we happen to be living in the same apartment or house together it would severely cut into the income and the revenue of the rec center,” says Johnson.

When the Mayor was asked if the Nampa Recreation Center would experience a financial setback should there be an influx of “legal” families asking for memberships Dale said, “I can’t answer that one, I do not know.”

PrideDEPOT.com took a deeper look into Dale and Johnson’s claim that NRC would suffer financially. We found that on the City of Nampa website the 2009 Department of Accomplishments (pg 28) states that for Fiscal Year 2008 they sold 6,116 memberships that amounted to approximately 13, 841 members. This would seem to suggest more family memberships than individual memberships.

We asked Johnson to provide the percentage of “family” to “individual” memberships for that same period. That answer came in an email from Cody Swander, Nampa Recreation Center director, who said there were 2,857 family memberships, and 3,265 individual memberships. Both categories include charter members who joined at lower fees when the center was raising money to build the facility.

The Nampa Recreation Center’s annual membership fee structure includes:

  • Family memberships (one single or two married adults with any number of children) $634
  • Or, Senior couples for (65 or older) $509
  • Individual memberships (single adult 18 years or older) $353
  • Or, Single senior adult (65 or older) $281
  • Or, Single youth (17 or younger) $246

In our calculations below, we used the lowest family membership fee and highest individual membership fee to deliberately bias the outcome in favor of Dale and Johnson’s financial argument. However, what we actually found appears not to support their claims.

  • 2,857 family memberships at $509, this could potentially generate about $1.45 million in family revenue.
  • 3,265 individual memberships at $353 would only generate about $1.15 million.

The city’s argument about losing money by recognizing domestic relationships is dubious, indicating that the reverse is more likely, the center would actually make more money by allowing same-sex families.

Since the alleged threat of financial losses could be more public relations smoke than substance, the city needs another hook to deny families such as Howard and Dovel so they turn to what they claim is the legal definition of a “family” in Idaho.

What Mayor Dale needs to realize is that the city he manages already has a city code on the books that defines a family in terms that should provide legal grounds for this couple to acquire the family membership they are seeking.

In Title 10, Chapter 1 of the Planning and Zoning code the Part 2 definition of “family” reads as follows:

“One or more persons related by blood, marriage, adoption or a group of not more than three (3) persons not related by blood or marriage, living together as a single housekeeping unit in a dwelling unit.”

Nampa City Codes is well supported by the United States Supreme Court in the 1974 case of “Village of Belle Terre v. Boraas” Which states, “The word ‘family’ as used in the ordinance means,

“[o]ne or more persons related by blood, adoption, or marriage, living and cooking together as a single housekeeping unit, exclusive of household servants. A number of persons but not exceeding two (2) living and cooking together as a single housekeeping unit though not related by blood, adoption, or marriage shall be deemed to constitute a family.”

Howard, Dovel, and their son classify as a “family” according to an existing Nampa city code.

The gay tax and the economics of discrimination

Nampa Recreation Center in Idaho Discriminates against same-sex familiesThe issue in Nampa is just one of countless examples of the unequal economic burden placed on gay and lesbian families. This is a policy that limits economic equality as we see in the additional after taxes cost Dovel has been paying just for Howard’s health insurance. Now the family is enduing unnecessary higher health club fees as well.

To protect their family rights, they must hire an attorney to assist them in protecting their interests which are automatically granted to heterosexual couples who have a marriage certificate.

This is a financial burden that is taking place all across this nation that also carries an emotional and quality of life cost. It takes its toll on children raised in same-sex headed households as they are not provided equal access to services and resources that children reared by heterosexual couples are automatically entitled to.

“I would like to take this discussion out of the realm of sexual orientation because it has nothing to do with sexual orientation” said the Mayor, “It never has been about, in our estimation, an issue of judgment of any kind on same-sex relationships.”

If what the mayor is saying is true, then he seems to be contradicting himself. When Mayor Dale was asked if the law should be changed, he responded simply, “Personally I agree with the definition of marriage as being between a man and a woman.”

When asked if he would support avoiding using the word “marriage,” but simply referencing the same rights and privileges, he replied, “I don’t know I would have to really look at that a lot closer, I am not prepared to answer on that.”

All of this debate over marriage rights is getting lost in the real issue of what constitutes a family. What really is a family?

Howard and Dovel did not go to the City of Nampa demanding that they be recognized as a legally married couple, they only asked that their family not be marginalized by politicians, bureaucrats and others who mask their contempt under a veneer religious ideology. This couple simply asks that they be recognized as a family that faces the same valleys and peaks as many other families across this country.

The City of Nampa is on the wrong side of equality and justice on this issue. The politicians can point to the law and the threatened ideologues can point to their scriptures, but in their misguided attempts to deny families such as this one an equal footing, they will be defeated.

“I believe in this era of ‘Big Government’, special interest groups, and PACs, the place in America where democracy works best is on the local level. It is at this level where average citizens can make their voices heard.” – Nampa Mayor Tom Dale, Phone: (208) 468-5401, mayor@ci.nampa.id.us



PrideDEPOT.com editor, independent journalist & LGBT media spokesperson,
Jody May-Chang now writes on "As I See It...Reporting from the front lines

As I See It Jody May-Chang.com Reporting from the front lines


24 comments
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  1. This is just one more reason to fight for the injustices in the world. If we don’t stand together as one voice then we will fall to pieces. Stand up and fight with us. Teach our children love and tolerence, not hate and fear!!!

  2. First off I want to say with everthing out there I agree they should have been allowed the membership, that is what the law says. I just have a problem with a few things in this artical; First the financial part I don’t think who ever wrote this understands the point the mayor was making you have 2,857 families and 3,265 individual memberships with a total of 2.6 million and say 1,000 of those individuals are roommates and decide they want to exploit this and say they are a family then that will make 3,357 families and 2,265 individuals totaling 2.5 million so there is a loss in funds. Second his personal opinions on marriage doesn’t effect the law, if it was to be changed it would be voted on by higher power than him and he has no say. In sayin that I also agree that the mind set has to change on some of those higher powers I just think saying someones beleifs are worng is doing the same thing that people are fighting to change “the door swings both ways” type of thing.

  3. This makes me really upset. I am behind all rights for same-sex partnerships and marriage, and the rights that go with it. I am writing to congress. Let me know if there is any other way I can help.

  4. Hey Mike -

    “I just think saying someones beleifs are worng is doing the same thing that people are fighting to change “the door swings both ways” type of thing.”

    That is called public discourse, it is religion, something I might add not ALL people believe in, that is the foundation to LGBT bigotry. So you are saying the writer of this post is as bad as them for pointing out religious bias!? I would suggest you become more familure with the First Amendment.

    So Dude…..NONE of those people are “roommates” and the number of same-sex couples will not break the bank for the Rec Center. They basically said so themselves. You are so missing the point. They LIED!

  5. 1) Family (Law Definition) (n) A group of individuals who share ties of blood, marriage, or adoption; a group residing together and consisting of parents, children, and other relatives by blood or marriage
    2) Marriage – (n) the union between one man and one woman
    According to the terms defined, the Nampa Rec Center did not only have the right to deny this “couple” a family membership, but they did the right thing. This whole issue has turned into an argument about same-sex marriage….which is NOT legal in any state but is allowed through loopholes in the law on record in Massecusetts and Connecticutt. Civil Unions are recognized in 5 other states…but are NOT called ‘Marriages”. I am, frankly, VERY tired of the homosexual agenda in their DEMANDING special rights. The last time I checked, (today), sexual orientation is NOT a protected CIVIL RIGHT. I am tired of sexual orientation being equated in the same category as racial and gender inequality or being left-handed. Homosexuality is a CHOICE of sexual BEHAVIOR and therefore should NOT be included in discussions of discrimination and civil rights. Research has shown that the gay gene is a myth (do some unbiased research) and even the researchers themselves (who were mostly homosexual) admitted that there was NO conclusive evidence of a gay gene but rather, environment seemed to play the biggest role in whether or not a person CHOSE to live the homosexual lifestyle. Religion has nothing to do with this discussion. But I would ask how the OPINION of a gay person (who thinks homosexuality is OKAY) is accepted and the opinion of everyone else (who thinks homosexuality should STAY IN THE CLOSET)is NOT. Until the 70′s, the American Psychiatric Association defined homosexuality as a mental disorder. Because of POLITCAL reasons and not researched scientic reasons, the APA changed the definition of homosexuality to a “sexual DEVIANT” lifestyle. AGAIN, due to POLITICAL and violent GAY riots, in the 80′s this definition was removed entirely and nothing is defined about what is acceptable when considering the homosexual CHOICE. This is NOT BIGOTRY. THis is NOT DISCRIMINATION. This is not an affront to civil rights. This is a matter of what happens in the bedroom,\should stay in the bedroom…PERIOD.

  6. Thank you for this article! These women are noble patriots for pointing out the inequity of a tyrannical government. The debate over same sex marriage has for too long been marginalized by straight society that characterizes us as demanding social acceptance. We are not spoiled teenagers at a party demanding that people like us, we are American citizens demanding equal taxation and access to governmental services.

  7. Check out that last photo of the sign. “Daddy Daughter Date Night”?! Now that is just a little too creepy!

  8. This is an email that I recieved not long after this story broke, it is titled “To Kill an American” was written by an Australian Dentist. It reads as follows:

    You probably missed this in the rush of news, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper, and offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

    So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial the following day to let everyone know what an American is. So they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!)

    An American is English, or French, or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan.

    An American may also be a Comanche, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole, or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

    An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan. The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses. American is straight, gay, green, purple, or any other color.

    An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

    An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world. The root of the prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence, which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness.

    An American is Generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nation in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return.

    When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and supplies to enable the people to win back their country!

    As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan, Americans welcome the best of everything…the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best services. But they also welcome the least.

    The national symbol of America, The Statue of Liberty, welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America.

    Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. It’s been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and firs languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

    So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

    This is so very true….we should all be equal!!!

  9. First of all, stop trying to turn this into a gay and lesbian rights issue. The Nampa Rec Center denied them a family membership due to the fact that they could not provide a marriage license…..NOT because they are a lesbian couple. The rules and regulations are very clear and state that they have the right to ask you for proof of marriage before allowing you the family rate. If they bend the rules for Amber and Rachel, who is to say that same sex roommates, not couples, roommates, aren’t going to start going into the Rec Center and trying to get a family membership just so they can save some bucks? By having to provide that proof of marriage, the Rec Center is protecting their rules and their business by being consistent with every person/group that walks through the doors. Sorry to say ladies, you are not being discriminated against because you are lesbians, so stop trying to turn this into that type of issue.

  10. Nice try “formerNampagirl” – these two women and their son are a FAMILY! I realize how hard it is for some people who have a limited perspective and definition of what constitutes a family to understand the issue. The fact that one of the women put her partner on her employer’s insurance policy would indicate to anyone with a functioning brain that they are just a little bit more than “roommates.” Also, I don’t recall the Nampa Rec Center asking heterosexuals for a copy of their marriage certificate to get the family rate.

    It’s clear that the religious zealots out there can’t get past their ideology to recognize that gay and lesbian people are human beings deserving of respect and equality, so they resort to the same old tired games and smear campaigns to marginalize those who just don’t fit in with their black & white vision of the world.

    There are same-sex couples all across this nation who are successfully raising kids and functioning as a “family” even if the rightwing loonies refuse to open their eyes.

    The bottom line to this whole story is simple; they were denied access and equality because they are queer, period. Those who refuse to recognize them as a family are living in the past and out of touch with reality.

  11. I never said that they weren’t a family. I also never said that they were claiming to be a family in order to get a discount at the Rec Center.

    I was just pointing out that from a business standpoint, the Rec Center has to worry about those people who would use their roommate status (i.e. claiming that they are a “couple” when they are not) to get a cheaper rate. I never said that Amber and Rachel were doing this. There are people out there who would do this, and those are the people that the Rec Center is worried about, which is why they have black and white rules put in place to deal with every person that walks into their establishment.

    Amber and Rachel were not denied a membership because they are “queer”, as you so eloquently put it. They were denied because they could not produce a valid marriage certificate. If you go onto the Nampa Rec Centers website, it clearly states that they can and probably will ask for a marriage certificate. I do not agree with the laws that say that a woman cannot marry another woman, or that a man cannot marry another man, however it is what it is. Like I said, the Nampa Rec Center was just following the rules that the city of Nampa has set forth for them. Heterosexual couples that are not married have been turned away, so why should there be special rules for lesbian/gay couples?

    Plus, why are you making assumptions about me? I believe I have a very broad perspective on what happens around me. And unless you are a heterosexual who has applied for the family membership and were not asked for a marriage license, that is a very interesting assumption that you are taking on. I had friends who worked at the Rec Center when I lived in Nampa, and they asked for a marriage license from everyone applying for the family pass. Plus, I am also not a religious zealot, and did not even bring religion into this discussion, nor am I a “rightwing loony”. So maybe you, “Anonymous”, can stop putting labels on people that you do not know. If you continue to do this, you are no better then the people you have described.

  12. RE: formerNampagirl

    Read the ENTIRE article AGAIN carefully…..The rec center would NOT loose money if they let gay/lesbian families join as families. In fact, it would probably benefit them. That is a NON-ISSUE. Then you add the unachievable hurdle of requiring a marriage that we are barred from getting, that clearly makes this a gay/lesbian issue. Straight couples have the choice to get married we do not. Other clubs acknowledge our families because it makes good business sense to do so. The Nampa Rec Center could too if they really wanted to, instead of coming up with transparent lies to cover up their homophobia.

  13. Shame on you, Mayor Dale.
    Discrimination toward a family in your “city”.
    You are Okay with that
    & THAT makes me sick
    Bigotry rears its ugly head!

    A little poem for you, Mayor Dale. Hope you like it.
    Gina

    Disgusted Nampa Resident

    and his response:
    Thank you for your poem. Imbedded in that poem is an unspoken question, or maybe an assumption would be more accurate, regarding if I am OK with discrimination. I want to answer that assumption in two parts.

    First, this, and every city in the State of Idaho, is prohibited by law from discriminatory actions based on race, gender, religion, national origin, sexual preference, and others. As a city, we work very hard to make sure we avoid discrimination in policies, hiring practices, or in any other business we conduct with our citizens. We don’t do that because we have to, based on any law, we do that because it is the right thing to do. If there were no such laws, we would still work hard to avoid discrimination. In the case you are referring to, there is no discrimination in the Rec Center policy regarding family discounts. This policy is applied equally to all people using our Rec Center and seeking a family discount. The provisions for granting a family discounted pass are very clearly articulated, and we follow that policy without regard to sexual preference.

    Second, I have lived in the Middle East, as a white skinned foreigner in a land of Arabs. I lived in Hawaii for a summer during my college years, where I was beaten up simply because I was a long-haired, blond, white guy – a “haole.” I know what discrimination looks like, and have fought all my life for the rights of those discriminated against. I am not “Okay” with discrimination or bigotry in any form.

    Sincerely,

    Tom Dale

    *******

    I must say that I am impressed..it only took him a couple of hours to respond!

  14. I Love Dykes Says:

    February 3rd, 2009 at 4:40 pm
    RE: formerNampagirl

    “Read the ENTIRE article AGAIN carefully…..The rec center would NOT loose money if they let gay/lesbian families join as families. In fact, it would probably benefit them. That is a NON-ISSUE. Then you add the unachievable hurdle of requiring a marriage that we are barred from getting, that clearly makes this a gay/lesbian issue. Straight couples have the choice to get married we do not. Other clubs acknowledge our families because it makes good business sense to do so. The Nampa Rec Center could too if they really wanted to, instead of coming up with transparent lies to cover up their homophobia.”

    “Loose” money? I think you mean “lose” money. And YOU need to understand that they WOULD LOSE money. Let me make it simple for you. FAmily membership = $634 (2 adults plus kids) Individual membership = $353….let’s do some real math. 2 individual memberships = $706 + kid $246 = $952 IF this couple paid for 2 individual memberships plus a kid membership. IF this “couple” paid for one family membership (one parent +child) + individual $353 = $987 The article MISREPORTED how much MORE this so-called “couple” would have to pay that a married couple with children…getting the family discount because they deserved it…they would have to pay $318 MORE NOT $353 more….A family discount is $634…for a legally defined family…..they would have had to pay $952….$952 – $634 = $318 NOT $353. Why would the boy’s real mother pay for a family membership for herself and her son at $634…when an individual plus child membership would only cost $599? Do the math and report things correctly. But that is the problem with this article…the FACTS are WRONG…even the legal definitions of family and marriage. Poor Journalism just to PUSH forward the GAY AGENDA on America…where we are not green purple pink gay and straight. I am NOT a color… but a person, who by the very nature of BIOLOGY, has made me STRAIGHT. I have to CHOOSE to be gay since NATURE does NOT make HOMOSEXUALS…it goes against the VERY NATURE of furthering a species. Use your brains people and not your genitals for once to think with.

  15. Oh, ‘Lee’ – I respect your right to be a blithering idiot more than you respect the right of gay people to exist. I realize you are probably mentally-challenged, so you might want to call in your caregiver to interpret this for you since grasping a subject known as SCIENCE might be beyond your brain’s capabilities.

    Addressing just one of your more recent pathetic moronic rants:

    “I have to CHOOSE to be gay since NATURE does NOT make HOMOSEXUALS…it goes against the VERY NATURE of furthering a species. Use your brains people and not your genitals for once to think with.” – said “Lee”

    Okay, stupid here goes….

    One thing that does seem to be exclusive to humans is homophobia – an example of such being put on display here by the pathetic moron calling himself/herself “Lee”

    According to University of Oslo zoologist Petter B̦ckman, about 1,500 animal species are known to practice same-sex coupling, including bears, gorillas, flamingos, owls, salmon and many others. Also, the seagull Рthe official state bird of ultra-conservative Utah Рhas been reportedly seen doing a lot of same-sex nesting.

    Japanese macaques: Female macaques form intense bonds with each other and are serially monogamous, meaning they only have one sexual partner at a time. However, they have several of these relationships during each breeding season.

    American Bison: More than 55 percent of mounting in young males is with the same gender.

    Bottlenose Dolphins: Male bottlenose dolphins are generally bisexual, but they go through periods of being exclusively homosexual.

    Giraffes: Often a male will start necking with another before proceeding to mount him. This affectionate play can take up to an hour.

    Kob antelope: On average, females mount with other females a couple of times an hour during the mating season. Homosexual mounting encompasses almost 9 percent of all sexual activities within these hoofed mammals.

    Black swan: Homosexual couples account for up to 20 percent of all pairings annually

    Walrus: Male walruses don’t reach sexual maturity until they are four years old. During that time, they are most likely exclusively involved in same-sex relationships.

    Gray Whale: Splashing around in the water is brought to a completely new level in gray whales, where homosexual interactions are quite common.

    Guianan-Cock-of-the-Rock: Males of this stunning perching bird delight in homosexuality. Almost 40 percent of the male population engages in a form of homosexual activity and a small percentage don’t ever copulate with females.

    Bonobo Chimpanzees: Homosexuality has been documented in almost 500 species of animals, signaling that sexual preference is predetermined. Considered the closest living relative to humans, bonobos are not shy about seeking sexual pleasure. Nearly all of these peace-loving apes are bisexual and often resolve conflict by the “make love, not war” principle.

    All of your screaming and senseless banter on this website only proves to the entire world just how absolutely stupid and unreasonable you really are. You need to step away from the keyboard and go back to your crayon box.

    You are embarrassing yourself.

  16. RE: I Love Dykes

    This Rec Center issue is not a gay/lesbian issue, period. The fact that gays and lesbians are not able to get married has nothing to do with the Rec Center….the Nampa Rec Center has not legally barred them from getting married, so again, them not being able to produce a marriage certificate is not the Rec Centers fault. The Rec Center has rules and regulations in place for a reason. To protect them and to allow them to be consistent in all situations.

    If this is really that big of a slap in the face to the gay/lesbian community, then why would you want to be a member of the Rec Center? Go somewhere else for your workout needs. There are many choices out there, so exercise your right to patronize another establishment.

    The Rec Center followed their own rules. End of story.

  17. RE: formerNampagirl

    I know this really makes the right crazy because they know there is no stopping us getting our EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS eventually and that really pisses you all off. So formerNampagirl because the city bus companies in the south during the civil rights movement didn’t make the law that required blacks to sit in the back of the bus means that blacks should have just accepted it and walked?

    Hiding behind the marriage certificate requirement knowing full well a SMALL segment of citizens will not be able to produce one is chicken shit discrimination. Deliberately setting the bar to high for people to reach it is exclusionary by policy and is systematic homophobia! Nothing that is unjust changes without A. PUBLIC DISCUSSION and B. RESISTANCE.

    There is really no excuse for such discrimination that holds water so I would suggest you come up with a better argument. If you REALLY understood the daily crap we put up with just to live our lives, especially from people like you and Lee, you would not be so confused.

    I have an honest question for you formerNampagirl. Why does this make you so angry? Why do you go to such lengths to go to a Queer website to argue your disapproval? There are really only three reasons I can think of.

    1. You are really a homophobe but you know it is too politically incorrect to outwardly admit it so you make baseless arguments out of frustration.
    2. You are having some internal conflict of your own that you are struggling with – Thou does protest too much maybe?
    3. You work for the Nampa Recreation Center?

    Maybe all three? To quote you, “ End of story!”

  18. “buddy”
    Dogs also “hump” legs, teddy bears, furniture, or anything they can….To make assumptions as to why certain species will try and “mate” with anything that moves does not prove the point that homosexuality is “natural.” The evolutionary point that was made (but apparently too higher-level thinking to be understood) is that even nature and the survival of the fittest requires reproduction to further the species. What is the point of same-gender copulation? If a human is going to try a tell the world what animals are “thinking” while they copulate, something is most definitely wrong. Why do we call it “animal sex” when two people of any gender or confusion copulates? They do it for the sheer pleasure of selfish gratification….it has nothing to do with sexual preference. Why do men “RAPE” other men in prison? Are they homosexuals? I think not…of course, I would expect you to say yes. I can see that you will not understand ANY reasonable or logical explanations and therefore I refuse to “cast pearls to the swine.”

  19. I love Dykes….

    If there is ANYTHING I can do…I will. I will be starting my own agenda and campain to force you BACK into the closet. Pornography has turned this country into a sess pool of deviant sexual behaviors that the minority is telling the majority that WE have to accept. Well…bullcrap! I do NOT have to accept it. I am boycotting Pepsico and ALL of its porducts because of their support of the GAY AGENDA and I would encourage everyone who cares about this country and the deviant direction it is headed to do the same…AND to let Pepsi know why you are boycotting them. $1,000,000 is a lot of money to give to a deviant agenda….why not give that money to help feed the hungry, poor, homeless, and sick? Instead of feeding the sexually deviant? Discrimination my butt!

  20. i think that this is totally stupid!!! just because they are lesbian does not maen that they should be denide the right to a FAMILY pass!!! its completely out of line/1

  21. Is that you babygirl?

  22. [...] couple told PrideDEPOT.com that since they could not produce a marriage certificate, they could not be considered a family [...]

  23. [...] Nampa ID Recreation Center Denies Same-Sex Families * STORY UPDATE: Protest Scheduled at Nampa Rec. Center Feb 21 * Idaho AG’s Office, says [...]

  24. [...] couple told PrideDEPOT.com that since they could not produce a marriage certificate, they could not be considered a family [...]